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(Vatican Radio) During his in-flight press conference following his visit to Sweden, Pope Francis spoke on Tuesday about a range of topics including welcoming refugees, female priests, relations with the charismatic movements, his talks with Venezuela’s President, secularisation, his upcoming journeys abroad and human trafficking.

Listen to this report by Susy Hodges: 

In his traditional press conference with journalists travelling with him on the plane back to Rome, Pope Francis was asked first what is his message to those European countries who fear the arrival of refugees and for Sweden, traditionally a country that has been more welcoming to refugees and migrants than many others, but which of late, has started to close its borders. Stressing that we cannot close our hearts to refugees, in his reply the Pope praised Sweden’s example of hospitality towards refugees. At the same time he said it was very important for any country accepting refugees or migrants to make sure that they also take steps to ensure they are properly integrated into their host nations, saying this is a process that takes time. He went on to warn that a country can pay a political price if they take in more refugees than they can integrate properly. In this context, he warned against the formation of ghettos for refugee or migrant communities, saying this was a “dangerous” development that should be avoided.

Asked next how realistic it would be to foresee women priests in the Catholic Church in the coming decades, and if not, why not, Pope Francis said “the last word on this issue was clear” and had been given by Saint John Paul II and “this stands.” At the same time, he stressed that the Church itself is feminine and Mary is more important than the Apostles in terms of the theology and mysticism of the Church on the day of the Pentecost. The Church, he explained, has its Petrine dimension and its Marian dimension and said it could not exist with this female dimension.

Turning next to the Church’s relations with the Charismatic Renewal movement and Evangelical Christians, the Pope was asked for his thoughts ahead of a major event in Rome in 2017 to mark the 50th anniversary of the establishment of the former. In his reply he spoke about initiatives taken by him to strengthen and improve relations with the Charismatic Church and the Waldensian Church, both as Pope and when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires. The Pope also revealed that whereas at first he forbade the Jesuits in Argentina to have anything to do with the Charismatic gatherings, he now believed “the opposite” as long as they were “done well.”

The request for the Vatican to mediate in the crisis in Venezuela between President Nicholas Maduro and the opposition was another question put to the Pope who confirmed in his reply that the Holy See had been asked to mediate in the ongoing dispute in that country and stressed that dialogue is the only way out of this crisis.

Asked next about the phenomenon of secularisation, especially in France and whether it is inevitable, Pope Francis said he believed that this arises when the faith becomes lukewarm and noted that secularisation is very strong in many cultures. He also warned about the effects of spiritual worldliness, saying when it enters into the Church this is “the worst thing” that can happen to it. 

The final question put to the Pope was about the scourge of human trafficking which was the subject of a recent conference held by the Santa Marta Group in the Vatican. In his reply, Pope Francis spoke about how moved he was when he saw at first hand the suffering of those who were the victims of human trafficking whilst he was living in Buenos Aires but also praised the work done by many volunteer groups in Italy to combat this scourge. Speaking about his plans for overseas journeys next year, the Pope said that it was “almost certain” he would be going to India and Bangladesh but there were no firm plans yet.

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(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis arrived back in Rome on Tuesday afternoon at the conclusion of his 17th Apsotolic journey abroad which took him to the southern Swedish cities of Lund and Malmo. Earlier in the day he celebrated Mass for the local Catholic community, urging them to follow in the footsteps of the saints of the past.

But the two key events of trip took place the previous day, as the Pope joined Lutheran leaders for a common commemoration of the Protestant Reformation that divided Europe five centuries ago.

Philippa Hitchen reports on the lasting impact this visit may have on the future of Lutheran-Catholic relations…

Listen:

While we can’t change the past, we can profoundly transform the way we remember it. That’s the message of the joint statement signed in Lund cathedral on Monday by Pope Francis and by Bishop Younan, president of the World Lutheran Federation.

It’s also a theme at the heart of a 2013 Catholic-Lutheran publication called ‘From Conflict to Communion’ which laid the foundation for Monday’s historic events. In six short chapters, the book summarises ways in which historians have looked anew at the Reformation and seen how Luther didn’t want to divide the Church, but rather to reform and clean up what he saw as corrupt, clerical practises. A call that seems strikingly similar to Pope Francis’ denunciation of corruption and clericalism in the Church today. (Perhaps that’s why his critics like to call him ‘the Protestant Pope’).

The roots of this joyful yet poignant common commemoration stretch back over decades of patient, theological dialogue between what one Lutheran leader called ‘the bold prophets’ of the past. Those who worked tirelessly to overcome conflict and division, sometimes at the cost of their own lives.

The divisions of five centuries ago, of course, don’t mean much to the thousands of young people who cheered and sang as their Church leaders entered the packed arena. They’re struggling with the modern conflicts that are still tearing apart communities and taking lives in the Middle East, in Africa, in Asia or in Latin America. Five Catholics and Lutherans, men and women from those different continents spoke publically about the way their faith has given them courage to continue the struggle in the most difficult and dangerous circumstances. The Pope and the Lutheran president thanked them for their examples of commitment and service to those most in need.

Both the prayer service in the cathedral and the public event in the arena were moving and uplifting occasions – described by Bishop Younan as “a modern miracle of the Holy Spirit” who touched the hearts of the first disciples two thousand years ago in his native Jerusalem.

So do these events mean that Christian unity is just around the corner? That differences around our visions of Church, Eucharist and Ministry are suddenly overcome? That new arguments over women’s ordination or same-sex relationships are no longer important? No, these old and new issues will require the patient, unglamorous work of theologians for many years to come. But I do believe that Monday’s events model a new way of working together,  a new style of engaging with differences and a new sense of shared Christian service, so desperately needed in today’s divided and suffering world.

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Aboard the papal plane, Nov 1, 2016 / 10:36 am (CNA/EWTN News).- During a press conference Tuesday aboard the papal plane from Sweden to Rome, Pope Francis said the issue of women priests has been clearly decided, while also clarifying the essential role of women in the Catholic Church.

“On the ordination of women in the Catholic Church, the final word is clear, it was said by St. John Paul II and this remains,” Pope Francis told journalists Nov. 1.

The question concerning women priests in the Catholic Church was asked during the flight back to Rome after the Pope’s Oct. 31-Nov. 1 trip to Sweden to participate in a joint Lutheran-Catholic commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

While there, the Pope participated in ecumenical events alongside Swedish Lutheran and Catholic leaders, including the first female Lutheran archbishop in Sweden, Antje Jackelén. She is the head of the Church of Sweden, the largest denomination of Lutheranism in Europe.

After stating that the issue of female ordination is closed, the Pope added that women are very important to the Church, specifically from a “Marian dimension.”

“In Catholic ecclesiology there are two dimensions to think about,” he said. “The Petrine dimension, which is from the Apostle Peter, and the Apostolic College, which is the pastoral activity of the bishops, as well as the Marian dimension, which is the feminine dimension of the Church.”

Pointing out that the Holy Mother Church “is a woman,” Francis said that the “spousal mystery” of the Church as the spouse of Christ can help us to understand these two dimensions.

“I ask myself: who is most important in theology and in the mysticism of the Church: the apostles or Mary on the day of Pentecost? It's Mary!” he said.

The Church “doesn’t exist” without this feminine dimension, or “maternity,” the Pope said, because the Church herself is feminine.

Pope Francis did express that he thinks women “can do so many things better than men, even in the dogmatic field,” but he clarified how it is still a separate dimension from that of priests and bishops in the Petrine dimension.

From the beginning of his papacy, Francis has been clear on the issue of women priests, while still emphasizing the unique and important role of women in the Church.

In a press conference returning from Rio de Janeiro on Aug. 5, 2013, he answered the same question: “with reference to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says, ‘No.’ John Paul II said it, but with a definitive formulation. That is closed, that door.”

He said that on the theology of woman he felt there was a “lack of a theological development,” which could be developed better. “You cannot be limited to the fact of being an altar server or the president of Caritas, the catechist … No! It must be more, but profoundly more, also mystically more.”

On his return flight from Philadelphia for the World Meeting of Families Sept. 28, 2015, the Pope again said that women priests “cannot be done,” and reiterated that a theology of women needs to “move ahead.”

“Pope St. John Paul II after long, long intense discussions, long reflection said so clearly,” that female ordination is not possible, he said.

Among concerns surrounding the Pope’s trip to Sweden, and the hope for continued progress on the path to communion between Lutherans and Catholics, was the issue of female ordination.

This is alongside other social and ethical issues, such as homosexuality and abortion, which are points of division not only between Catholics and Lutherans, but also within the global Lutheran community.

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Aboard the papal plane, Nov 1, 2016 / 11:43 am (CNA/EWTN News).- During his flight from Sweden to Rome on Tuesday, Pope Francis gave a press conference to the journalists assembled aboard the papal plane. He reflected on refugees, the ordination of women, ecumenism, and the crisis in Venezuela.

He also addressed secularization, human trafficking, and his possible international trips in the coming year.

Please find below the full text of the Nov. 1 press conference, translated by Catholic News Agency:
 

Greg Burke: Thank you, Holy Father. Welcome. We have… you spoke a lot of walking together, this when we speak of different religions…. We also have walked a bit of a path together, some for the first time. We have Swedish journalists. I think that it’s been a bit of time that Swedes haven’t come. Let’s begin with them. Elen Swedenmark, from the Swedish Agency, TT.

Pope Francis: Above all, I’d like to greet you and thank you for the work you’ve done and the cold you’ve taken on, but we left in time because they say that this evening it will go down another five degrees. We got out in time. Thanks so much… thanks for the company and for your work.

Ellen Svedenmark: Thanks. Hello. Yesterday, Holy Father, you spoke of the revolution of tenderness and at the same time, we see ever more people from nations like Syria or Iraq are seeking refuge in European nations but some react with fear or there are even people who think that the arrival of these refugees might threaten the culture of Christianity and Europe. What is the message for the people who fear this development of the situation? And what is your message to Sweden, which after a long tradition of receiving refugees is now beginning to close its borders?

Pope Francis: First of all, I as an Argentine and a South American thank Sweden so much for this hospitality ... because so many Argentines, Chileans, Uruguayans, in the time of the military dictatorships were welcomed in Sweden. Sweden has a long tradition of welcoming ... not only receiving, but integrating, immediately seeking a home, school, work, integrating a people. I’ve been given the statistic, maybe I’m wrong, I’m not sure… what I remember, but I could be wrong…how many inhabitants does Sweden have? 9 million…of these 9 million, they’ve told me…850,000 would be the “new Swedes,” that is, immigrants or refugees and their children. This is the first.

Secondly, one must distinguish between migrant and refugee. The migrant must be treated with certain rules, because to emigrate is a right, but it is a very regulated right. On the other hand, being a refugee, one comes from a situation of war, of anguish, of hunger… from a terrible situation. And the status of the refugee needs more care, more work… and also in this, Sweden has always provided an example in settling, in teaching the language and the culture, also integrating into the culture. In this (issue) of integration of culture, we shouldn’t be afraid, eh! Because Europe was made with a continuous integration of culture, so many cultures, no? I believe that - I don’t say this in an offensive way, no no no, (but) as a curiosity - the fact that today in Iceland, practically in the Icelandic language of today, they can read their classics from 1,000 years ago without difficulty means that it is a nation with little migration or few waves, as Europe has had.

Europe was made from migrations and…Then, what do I think of the countries that close their borders? I think that theoretically, one cannot close their heart to a refugee. But also the prudence of those who administrate must be very open to receiving them, but also to making calculations as to how to settle them, because not only must a refugee be received, but he must be integrated. And, if a country has a “living capacity” - let’s call it that - of integration, but do it up to that limit…and if there’s anything more? Do more! But always with an open heart, it’s not human to close doors! It’s not human to close the heart!

And on the long term, one pays for this. Here, we pay politically, no? Just as also one can pay politically for an imprudence in calculations, in receiving more of those who can be integrated… because what is the danger when a refugee, a migrant (this counts for both of them) isn’t integrated, is not integrated, (when) - I permit myself the word, it’s perhaps a neologism - one is “ghettoed,” enters into a ghetto.

It’s a culture that doesn’t develop in relationship with the other culture. This is dangerous. I think that the worst counselor for the countries that tend to close their borders is fear. And the best counselor is prudence. I spoke with an official of the Swedish government in these days and they told me of some difficulties in this moment - and this goes for your last question - some difficulties because so many come that there isn’t time to sort them out and find school, home, work, learn the language. Prudence must do something. But, Sweden… I don’t believe that Sweden is, if it diminishes its capacity to welcome, may it do it for egoism because it has lost that capacity. If there is something of the sort, it’s for the latter that I said: that so many today look to Sweden because they know how to welcome, but there isn’t the necessary time to sort out everyone. I don’t know if I answered.

Greg Burke: Thank you, Holy Father. Now, a question from the Swedish nation, in the same row, Christina Kaplan.

Christina Kaplan: Good morning. The Sweden that hosted this important ecumenical encounter has a woman as head of it’s own Church. What do you think: is it realistic to think of women priests also in the Catholic Church in the coming decades? And if not, why are Catholic priests afraid of competition?

Pope Francis: Reading the history a bit in the area where we were, I saw that there was a queen who was widowed three times. And I said: but, this woman is strong, and they told me: Swedish women are very strong, very good. And because of this some Swedish man looks for a woman from another nationality...I don’t know if it’s true, but...on the ordination of women in the Catholic Church, the final word is clear, it was said by St. John Paul II and this remains. On competition, I don’t know...
 
Cristina Kaplan: (inaudible)

Pope Francis: If we read well the declaration made by St. John Paul II, it goes along this line, yes.

Greg Burke: Thank you, Holy Father.

Pope Francis: But women can do so many things better than men, even in the dogmatic field: to clarify, to perhaps give some clarity, not to say only a reference to a document. In Catholic ecclesiology there are two dimensions to think about. The Petrine dimension, which is from the Apostle Peter, and the Apostolic College, which is the pastoral activity of the bishops, as well as the Marian dimension, which is the feminine dimension of the Church, and this I have said more than one. I ask myself: who is most important in theology and in the mystic of the Church: the apostles or Mary on the day of Pentecost? It's Mary! ...the Church is a woman! It's "la Chiesa" (in Italian), not "il Chiesa"...it's "la Chiesa" and the Church is the spouse of Christ. It's a spousal mystery. And in light of this mystery you will understand the reason for these two dimensions. The Petrine dimension, which is the bishops, and the Marian dimension, which is the maternity of the Church...but in the most profound sense. A Church doesn't exist without this feminine dimension, because she herself is feminine.

Austen Ivereigh, Crux: Thank you very much, Holy Father this fall has been very rich in ecumenical encounters with the traditional churches; the Orthodox, the Anglican and now the Lutheran, but the majority of Protestants in the world today are from the Evangelical, Pentecostal, tradition. I have understood that on the vigil of Pentecost this coming year, there will be an event in Circus Maximus celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Charismatic Renewal. You have had many initiatives, perhaps for the first time as Pope with the evangelical leaders. What do you think of these initiatives, and what do you hope to achieve from the meeting next year? Thank you.

Pope Francis: With these initiatives, I would say that I had two, two types of initiatives, one when I went to Caserta to the charismatic church and also along this same line when in Turin I went to the Waldensian church. An initiative of reparation and of forgiveness because Catholics, part of the Catholic Church, didn't behave well with them and had to apologize and heal a wound. The other initiative was dialogue, already since Buenos Aires. In Buenos Aires for example we had three encounters in the Luna Park in Buenos Aires that had the capacity for 7,000 people, three encounters of evangelical and Catholic faithful in the line of the charismatic renewal, but also open. And the encounter was for the whole day. A pastor and an evangelical bishop preached and a Catholic priest and a Catholic bishop preached, or two and two, they were varied. In two of these encounters, if not in all three, but in two for sure, Fr. Cantalamessa, Preacher for the Papal Household spoke. The thing already comes from previous Popes since I was in Buenos Aires and it did us well, and we also had two three-day spiritual retreats of pastors and priests together. Pastors and priests, and a bishop, preached together and this helped a lot with dialogue, understanding the approach [to each other], to work and above all to work with the most needy together and to respect, great respect. These are with respect to the initiatives which come from Buenos Aires and already here in Rome, I have had some meetings with two pastors, with three already, some who come from the United States and from here in Europe, and what you mentioned is the celebration organized by the ICCRS, the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the charismatic renewal, which was born ecumenical and for this reason it will be ecumenical in that sense and it will be at Circus Maximus.

I have planned, if God gives me life to go, to give a talk there. I think that it will last for two days, but it is still not organized. I know that they are going to do the vigil of Pentecost and I am going to give a talk in that moment. With respect to the charismatic renewal and with respect to the pentecostals, the word pentecostal, the pentecostal renewal: today, it is confused because it mentions many things, many associations and many ecclesial communities that aren't equal, they are even opposite, so we need to specify further. They have been universalized so much that it is a misleading term. In Brazil, it's typical, the charismatic renewal has proliferated a lot. It was born and one of the first opponents that it had in Argentina is what you were speaking about, because I was provincial of the Jesuits at the time when this began, and I forbid the Jesuits to get involved in it and I publicly said that when they were going to have a liturgical celebration, it had to be a liturgical celebration and not a school of Samba. I said this. And, today, I think the opposite when it is well done, more so in Buenos Aires. Every year, once per year, we had Mass of the ovement of the charismatic renewal in the cathedral where everyone came, and I also suffered a process of recognizing the good that the renewal had given to the Church and here we cannot forget the great figure of Cardinal Suenens, who had that prophetic and ecumenical vision.

Greg Burke: Thank you, Holy Father. And now Eva Fernandez from COPE, the Spanish radio.

Eva Fernandez: You recently met with Nicolás Maduro, president of Venezuela. What sensation did this meeting give you, and what is your opinion on the beginning of the conversations?

Pope Francis: The president of Venezuela asked for an interview, and appointment because he came from the Middle East, from Qatar, the Emirates, and he made a technical stop in Rome. He asked for an interview first, he came in 2013, then he asked for another appointment, but he got sick and couldn’t come, and then he asked for this meeting. If the president asks, I receive him. What’s more, he was in Rome for a stop. I listened to him for half an hour, an appointment, I listened, I asked him some questions and I heard his opinion. It’s always good to listen to all areas, no? I listened to his opinion. In reference to the second, dialogue. It’s the only path for all conflicts, eh...for all conflicts...there is no other. I with my heart put it on dialogue, and I believe that one must go forward on this path. I don’t know how it will end, I don’t know because it’s very complex...but the people who are in dialogue have important political stature...Zapatero, who was twice president of the Spanish government...and the other, Restrepo… (Editor’s note: he probably refers to Martin Erasto Torrijos Espino, another mediator for the Venezuelan crisis) asked the Holy See to be present in the dialogue, on both sides. And the Holy See assigned the nuncio to Argentina, Archbishop Celli, who I think is on the flight of the negotiations. But dialogue that favors negotiation is the only path to go out of conflicts. There is no other. If this had been done in the Middle East, how many lives would have been spared.

Mathilde Imberti: Holiness, we’re returning from Sweden, where secularization is very strong… it’s a phenomenon that touches Europe in general. In a country like France, they even estimate that in the coming years, a majority of citizens will be without religion. In your view, is secularization fate? Who are those responsible? Lay governments or the Church that might be too timid?

Pope Francis: Fate, no. I don’t believe in fate. Who is responsible? I wouldn’t know how to say, “You are responsible.” I don’t know. It is a process of… but before this, I’d like to say something: Pope Benedict XVI spoke of this a lot and clearly, and when the faith becomes tepid it’s because, as you say, the Church is weakened… the most secularized times… but let’s think to France: the times of the “worldliness” of the court, the times when the priests were the abbots of the court… it’s a clerical functionalism… the strength of evangelization was lacking, the strength of the Gospel. Whenever there is secularization, we can say that there is something of weakness in the evangelization, a big one. It really is.

But, there is another process, a cultural process, a process of - I think that I spoke of it once - of the second form of “inculturation,” when man receives the world from God and to make culture, to make it grow, dominate it… at a certain point man feels such an owner of that culture, let’s think to the myth of the Tower of Babel, such an owner of that culture that he begins to make himself the creator of another culture, but his own, and occupies the place of God the Creator, no? And in secularization, I believe that sooner or later one arrives to the sin against God the Creator. It is sufficient… it’s not a problem of secularism , because you need a healthy secularism , the autonomy of things, the healthy autonomy of things, the healthy autonomy of the sciences, of thought, of politics, a healthy secularism is needed.

Another thing is a laicism like what illuminism left us in inheritance, no? I think that there are these two things: a little the self-importance of the man creator of culture, but who goes beyond the limits and feels himself God is also a weakness in evangelization, it becomes tepid, and Christians are tepid, no? There, it’s saves us a bit to take up again the healthy autonomy of the development of culture and the sciences also with the dependence of being a creature, not God, no? And also taking up again the strength of evangelization. Today, I think that this secularization is very strong in certain cultures and also very strong in different forms of worldliness. Spiritual worldliness. When it enters into the Church, spiritual worldliness is the worst.

They are not my words, this that I say now, they are words of Cardinal de Lubac, one of the great theologians of the Council, eh! He says that when spiritual worldliness enters into the Church - this is a way - it is the worst that can happen to it, even worse than that which happened in the age of the corrupt Popes. And he says some forms of corruption of the Pope, I don’t remember well, but so many, eh… worldliness… and this is dangerous… and I’m risking that this sound like a sermon, but it is … a homily… but I’ll say this: Jesus when he prays for all of us in the Last Supper, he asks one thing for all of us to the Father, of not taking us from the world, but defending us from the world of worldliness. [Worldliness] is extremely dangerous. It is a secularization with a bit of make-up, a bit disguised, a bit ‘pret-a-porter’ in the life of the Church I don’t know if I’ve answered something of…

Greg Burke: Thank you, Holiness. Now from the German television, ZDF, Jurgen Erbacher and we are at 35 minutes, one more…

Pope Francis: Yes, for them, for lunch…

Jurgen Erbacher, ZDF: Holiness, a few days ago you met with the Santa Martha Group that works in the fight against modern slavery and human trafficking, topics that I think are very close to your heart… but not only as Pope, but already in Buenos Aires you took up these topics. Why? Is there a special or possibly also personal experience [behind it]? And then as a German at the beginning of the year of commemoration of the Reformation, I must also ask if you are coming to that country where the Reformation began 500 years ago, perhaps during this year…  

Pope Francis: I’ll begin with the second: the schedule of trips for next year isn’t finished, yes, we’re only almost sure that I will go to India and Bangladesh, but that isn’t done, it’s a hypothesis. I continue to the first question. Yes, I, from my time in Buenos Aires, but since I was a priest, have always had this restlessness of the flesh of Christ, no? The fact that Christ continues to suffer and Christ is crucified continuously in his weakest brothers…it has always moved me! I worked as a priest, little things with the poor, but not exclusively, I also worked with university students and… then as bishop of Buenos Aires, we also (worked) together with non-Catholic and non-believing groups against slave labor, especially Latin American migrants who arrive in Argentina, they take their passport and make them do slave labor in the industries, but closed up (inside).

But once one burned down and they had the children on the rooftop, all dead, and also someone from there who wasn’t able to escape. Truly slaves, slaves...this moved me! The trafficking of persons...and I even worked with two congregations of sisters who were working with prostitutes, or, women enslaved in prostitution...I don’t like to say ‘prostitutes’...slaves of prostitution! Then once a year all these slaves of the system had a Mass in Constitution Square, which is one of the terminals, one of the railways, like Termini, I think of Termini...and they had a Mass there with everyone and to this Mass came all the organizations, the sisters who worked and even groups of non-believers but who worked together. And here you work the same. But here in Italy there are many volunteer groups who work against every form of slavery, whether it’s work, women...some months ago I visited one of these organizations and the people...Here in Italy they do well in volunteer work, I never thought that it happened like this. It's a beautiful thing that Italy has, no? Volunteer work is due to pastors or parish priests...the oratory and volunteering are two things that were born from the apostolic zeal of Italian parish priest. But I don't know if I have responded…Maybe I don’t know well how...

Greg Burke: Thank you, Holiness. They say that if we want to eat we must go...this is what my boss says.

Pope Francis: I thank you again for the questions, thank you very much! Thanks a lot and pray for me! Have a good lunch!

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By Cindy Wooden

ABOARD THE PAPAL FLIGHT FROM SWEDEN (CNS) -- The Catholic Church insistence that it cannot ordain women to the priesthood and episcopacy is a teaching likely to last forever, Pope Francis said.

After being hosted by the Lutheran Church of Sweden, which is led by Archbishop Antje Jackelen of Uppsala, the nation's first woman primate, Pope Francis was asked Nov. 1 if the Catholic Church might one day have women priests and bishops.

As he has done in the past, the pope responded that the question was settled in 1994 by St. John Paul II, who taught that because Jesus chose only men as his apostles, the ordination of women in the Catholic Church is not possible.

He was asked, "Really? Never?" And he responded, "If one carefully reads the declaration of St. John Paul, it goes in that direction, yes."

In one of his briefest airborne news conferences, Pope Francis spent just over 40 minutes with reporters and answered six questions ranging from Sweden's newly restrictive immigration policy to the role of women in the church. He also was asked about his experience with charismatics and Pentecostals, the roots of his concern about human trafficking, secularization in Europe and his meeting in late October with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.

Christians must never close their hearts to refugees and migrants, but governments have a duty to regulate the flux of newcomers as they allocate resources to ensure their integration into society, he said.

"It's not human to close one's heart," the pope told reporters flying with him from Sweden back to Rome.

As he has in the past, Pope Francis insisted nations live up to international agreements offering special welcome and protection to refugees fleeing war and persecution. While Catholic social teaching holds that every person has a right to migrate in search of a better life, accepting newcomers is a serious obligation when the person's life is at risk.

Europeans should not be frightened by the latest wave of newcomers, he said. "Europe was made with a continual integration of cultures, many cultures."

The key, he said, is to ensure a proper integration of newcomers with language lessons, a home, schools and jobs. "The danger is that when a refugee or migrant is not integrated, he or she is 'ghetto-ized.'"

Responding to the question about Maduro, Pope Francis said he met with him at the president's request. "I listened to him for half an hour," he said. "I asked a few questions. I heard his opinions. It's always good to listen to both sides."

Like in any conflict, he said, "either you dialogue or you scream." The political and social tensions in Venezuela -- tensions that have unleashed a major economic crisis and huge suffering for many -- must be resolved with dialogue, he said.

The Vatican, he added, is supporting dialogue in Venezuela and, at the invitation of both the government and the opposition, has sent Archbishop Emil Paul Tscherrig, the nuncio to Argentina, as an observer.

The secularization of Europe, or of any society, the pope said, is usually the result of one of two factors: "a weak evangelization" caused by "lukewarm Christians" or a cultural process in which a growing number of people start thinking they are the lords of history.

A "healthy" form of separation of church and state is not the culprit, he said.

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Follow Wooden on Twitter: @Cindy_Wooden.

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